1, On page 3, Nisbett talks about how the Greeks respect the individual and on page 5, how the Chinese respect authority and family. But in modern times, this may not be the case. Have you ever felt a time when Asians are not as Nisbett described in this chapter? If so, how? And why did you feel that way?
2, Which way of life would you rather choose between the Greeks (individuality) or the Chinese (harmony) and why?
3, On page 23, Nisbett says that "feng shui" (Chinese practice which considers relationships among any given things and balances the energies for better life.) still continued in the East.
Do you believe in "feng shui" and why or why not?
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Emi Arakawa
Ryoko Hiroi
Haru Yabumoto
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Hi Haru,
ReplyDeleteThank's for updating the questions!^^
Hopefully, we'll get many comments.
[2] I think that if I were given a choice on how I would like to live, I would choose the Greek way of living. The Chinese way of living, with people adapting to the society, or particular situations, seems very confining to me. I`m starting out from the point of view that there exists a unique sense of self, that you are you and not somebody else, and that something exists that will say that you are you, no matter what occurs. I might not have gotten my point across, but I all I want to say is this: You exist. Please note that this doesn`t have anything to do with the Greek`s “individualism”. My understanding is that the Chinese define who they are by the ties and relationships to the people around them. I do not feel that this is a satisfactory way to deal with existence. What, then, would the Chinese be if they were left all alone, without anybody around them? How would these people know who they were? I feel that people should be more than actors playing out the parts that are assigned to us by society. There may be times when those involved pretend, or wear a mask of sorts, for the benefit of all. However, the personality that has been created by the act of pretending does not show your real self. The thoughts that have influenced you to pretend is, I think, closer to your true nature. For example, when you go to a McDonald`s, you will see employees working there, giving away smiles for free. At this point, what do you think is the employee`s perception of self? Does he/she define himself/herself as "an employee" or does he/she define himself/herself as "an individual who is employed for the time being by the McDonald`s corporation"? Is she an employee, or is she being employed? They mean the same thing, but don`t they feel a little different? Another reason that I feel unsure about the Chinese way of life is their love of harmony. I`m not saying that I`m against harmony and cooperation. I believe that when humans work together, they can achieve something far greater than the sum of its parts. However, I`m concerned about the way confrontations were discouraged. I do not think trying to make a society where its members are in harmony with each other is bad, but when you start suppressing people`s ideas to achieve it, conformity is just one small step away. This seems to me to be a very dangerous possibility. The Greek`s way of life, on the other hand, keeps the freedom to choose to cooperate with each other, as well as the freedom to retain your own ideas. Believing in individualism does not mean that you can`t work together with each other. Debating with others and learning what other people think may help you in the long run more than if you just adjusted to what the other person believed. Many people also believe that we all have the right to be happy. I won`t go into details on that subject, but for people who believe that they have the right to become happy, it will probably be unacceptable not to pursue their own goals and dreams. Adjusting yourself to the surrounding environment and not trying to change things will most likely place limits on the pursuit of individual happiness.
ReplyDeleteIf you have any questions/comments please feel free to ask them. I`ll be waiting for your response!
(1) I watched a programme on TV (produced by the NHK) and was surprised that in China, there are such contracts that make children promise “to show devotion to one’s parents.” This is because there has been such problems as the increase in the number of old people who die alone, since relatives did not take enough care of them. People say that they do want to take care of their parents; however, they are too busy in working and maintaining their own life. The economic growth has changed the society and made it easier for young people to live independently compared to the older days when everyone had to support one another to live a normal life. I think such contracts do portray the changes in family relationships in China.
ReplyDeleteHowever, although the formation of the society has changed, I don’t really think that the ideology that runs deep inside people’s hearts is completely changing too. I once lived in Hong Kong and although Hong Kong people’s lives are greatly affected by the Western culture, I could often feel the vestige of the traditional Chinese philosophy and morals. For instance, on the Chinese New Year, Chinese restaurants are full of people who are holding big family gatherings and parties with close friends.
To wrap it up, although I cannot say that people’s ideologies are completely changing, I do think that the Chinese’s style of living is changing as the country develops and reshapes itself.
Looking forward to seeing other responses!
2) If I could choose between the Greek way of living and the Chinese way of living, I would choose the Greek way. This is because I think it is possible to have harmony with others while still having your own opinions and being respected as an individual. However, I think it would be difficult to keep your own opinions as an individual if you put having harmony as your first priority. In other words, it is difficult to create your own opinions when you know from the beginning that you will end up having to shift it to the majority or dominant opinion. It would be best if you were respected as an individual with your own opinions and you could share thoughts with others. Reaching to an agreement would not be necessary. I think what counts is that you have lots of oppurtunities to share your opinions and consider others'.
ReplyDelete(2) If I were to choose the life of the Greeks or the Chinese, I would rather prefer to live in the Greek way. This is simply because I believe there would be no harmony if there is no individuality. In the book, Nisbett asserts Greeks as “sense of personal agency,” and how Greeks cultivated their learning by debating. This idea will give us the chance to strengthen our opinion, because we have to defend our beliefs with good reasons when attacked; moreover, if one could have a concrete statement about something, then that would be his identity, which is a vital essence in a democratic society. Harmony, on the other hand, is a system which everyone makes a concession without so much asking or challenging to other people’s opinion than in debating. This is stated in the book that how Chinese are indulgent in holism and circularity. Therefore, when it comes to compare these two different types of living, I would say that they are not actually in completely two different dimensions. Rather, I would say harmony lies in the extent of the individuality, in that concessions held among people with strong and concrete statement is what is really needed in democracy.
ReplyDeleteQuestion3
ReplyDeleteI love the Chinese culture for preserving feng shui up until today because it means people have not forgotten the way their ancestors lived. Ancient China’s idea that the world consists of interrelated events and objects is perfectly reasonable to me. For example I had pasta with tomato sauce today. The pasta did not exist as pasta in the beginning; instead it was made from flour in Italy if I can trust the label on the package. By buying the pasta my money has fallen into the hands of the pasta company. In turn the company puts more pasta available in shops and I can have pasta again. Buying pasta today leads to purchasing pasta tomorrow. I do not, however, believe feng shui can be relied upon to avoid one’s house from burning down. Although I believe what exists or happens now is part of a chain reaction, I do not want to take things too far. I do not think a butterfly in Tokyo will affect the flow of money in Wall Street, like some sociologists say. Feng shui relies on seemingly reasonable evidence such as “altitude, prevailing wind, orientation toward the compass, proximity to various bodies of water”(24) to decide where something ought to be built. Yet I think the belief that one’s fortune depends on the factors above is jumping to conclusions. Perhaps someone had a house facing north and simply happened to have something lucky happen to them. I can only be sceptical about the effectiveness of feng shui.
Thank you.
(1)I've felt that Asian people are not so silent to their autholity, especially in the modern period, while reading Nisbett. When big Earthquake occurred in Shisen province of China about two years ago, I saw a news that said many critisism that the Chinese goverment were not dealing with the affair effectivery were on the web and they were written by Chinese people. In addition, in Thailand, demonstration against the goverment with many corruption case are being happen. Like this, now Asian people are becoming to say their opinion to their authority. Thinking of this situation, I'm sure that Nitbett's idea that Asian people don't against their autholity is outdated.
ReplyDelete1.
ReplyDeleteNisbett says that for Asians, harmony and family is very important. However, like Miyuki mentioned, recently so many people are struggling to work that they do not have time to take care of family, especially the elderly. I am sure the belief is still there; Respect your elders, family is the most important thing... Unfortunatly as times move forward and lifestyles change, that belief is sometimes difficult to carry out.
Although I am not sure about China, considering the question asked about the whole of Asia, I have seen examples of not making familiy a priority in Japan. The New Years is a big celebration in Japan. Traditions may differ depending on families or regions but the fact that families get together, usually at the grandparent`s house stays the same. However, recently many go travelling overseas during the holidays. Because they are so busy during the rest of the year, they take the holidays as a perfect opportunity to go abroad, leaving the grandparents in Japan. Also not many people make a big deal of Obon (the Japanese Buddhist custom to honor the dead ansectors). Furthermore, there are more elderlys that are out in care homes because people can not, or do not want to, take care of their own parents. They have their own lives to live. Sounds harsh but that is the reality.
If you ask "what is the most important thing to you?", perhaps many will answer "family". The belief that family should be important is still there. However, the reality these days is that people have drifted away from family. More and more families do not even eat dinner together. So, as Nisbett says, Asians probably still do believe that harmony and family are the key elements of life, but it is difficult to act upon it these days.
<2>
ReplyDeleteI would choose to live in the Greek way rather than the Chinese way. Individuality should be weighed more than harmony because if everyone has different experiences, then they should have different ways of thinking. It is impossible for humans to be exactly the same with everybody else.
The Chinese way of living reminds me of how Japanese people live. The Chinese and Japanese both value harmony and unity.
In Japan, people tend to follow the crowd. Japanese people are apt to think that it is bad to get attention of others. They feel safer to follow people around them because they believe that what majority thinks is often right. However, I have had an experience when this turned out to be the opposite. A teacher asked class a yes-or-no question and everyone in the class except for one student believed the answer was yes. Even I thought that I was right because everyone else had the same answer. However, everybody got it wrong except for the student who was different from others. I learned that we all must make a choice of our own because following the majority does not always lead to the right answer.
Pursuing for unity means that there is no uniqueness of individuals allowed. No one is allowed to be different and prominent in the Chinese way of living. In the Greek way of living, however, it is possible to have harmony and individuality at the same time. The Greek way allows us to corporate with others, at the same time staying who we really are. We can share our ideas, argue with each other and come up with something new. Our thoughts and ideas can be stimulated by listening to what others say. If people were to live in the Chinese way, their thoughts and actions would be limited. Therefore, I would choose to live in the Greek way, which values individuality.
>Yu Kominami
ReplyDeleteYour mention of a chain reaction gave me a new sense of understanding this practice, feng shui. I'm also sceptical about the butterfly effect in chaos theory, but nothing can prove its nonexistence. And, as long as ruling system of the world is a very complex one which is composed of interrelated parts, a tiny tiny part has big possibility to cause big changes. If my understanding is going right, in the case of feng shui, it has been believed that wind and water are the origin of the universe and that they can control everything. I don't believe in it, but it is possible to happen in that way. I felt feng shui to be intersting because feng shui seems to have simmilar futures to environmental studies. Environmental studies is relatively a new academic field. The study sees human beings as a part of a whole system. We realized it late, but ancient Chinese did thousands years ago. Feng shui is ecology rather than fortunetelling.
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ReplyDelete[1] In Japan, lifetime employment and a seniority system, the system that elders have an authority, had been taking root for a long time. Because of this, what elders say was taken to be absolute, and young people did not have a chance to show what they could do. However, things have changed and these traditional structures became undermined. Long lasting recession makes it difficult to keep lifetime employment, and a lot of employees are dismissed. Surprising fact is that it is elders who would sure to have an authority this time if it were ten years ago are dismissed now. My uncle is a good example of this situation. He had been working for JAL, and was once at an important position. However as the company was bankrupt, employees aged 50-year-old or more were unconditionally dismissed, and unfortunately my uncle was one of them. This incident made me aware that the time driven according to the authority of age ended. I think it is not authority but one's ability what counts now.
ReplyDelete[1] Nisbett mentioned that Chinese people respect harmony, especially family. Those respect does still exist in China, however, I think that has weakened by the change of society. As Miyuki and Madoka mentioned, I think the main reason is that people became busier than they used to be and they don’t have enough time to spend time with their family. In the past, Chinese government had controlled everything including what job that each person has. However, in 1978, they started to have “reform and opening-up policy”, which allow a nation to decide what job to have by their own will. Since then, a lot of people, especially women started to go into the society, and the family that has dual income household increased. As a result, those parents who are busy with work don’t have time to take care of their own children, so they ask their parents to take care of grand children. Furthermore they hire a maid to manage their housework.
ReplyDeleteI think by these changes, Chinese family harmony in modern time has weakened. The same thing can be said about Japan and other countries in Asia, but I think since China started to have the policy which seems to regard individual also as important factor, it is difficult to respect harmony at the same time.
2. Both harmony and individuality are very important in life. However, if I were to choose between the Chinese way of life (harmony) and the Greek way of life (individuality), I would choose the Chinese way of life. Harmony may not mean there is no individuality. I think that from harmony, comes individuality. We all have different opinions, thoughts whether it may be a big difference or a small difference, because everybody is not exactly the same since we all have different experiences or backgrounds. Having different thoughts, meaning being individual, is a good thing but just by having that, there will be arguments and the discussions will never be settled. So then we must harmonize those various thoughts in order to avoid the arguments and to make 'peace’ which is one of the most important things for our existence.
ReplyDeleteSo now that we all know we are all different in many ways, our challenge from now on, may be to think how to'harmonize' to create a peaceful co-existence between different people, communities and nations.
3. "Feng shui" is not only popular in China, but also in Japan as well, although it may be quite different from the original ones in China in a sense that it is more like fortune telling rather than focusing on "relationship in a complex, interconnected field". In the past, I have met people who considers "feng shui" when deciding the interior of their house, but for me, it is hard to believe that "feng shui" itself would lead to better life. The idea of "fundamental relatedness of all things"(23-24) is interesting and I like the idea of considering objects as being a piece of the whole rather than being isolated and independent. However, it is hard for me to relate "feng shui" with making one's life better and even though "feng shui" contains some scientific aspects, it is impossible to prove its certainty.
ReplyDeleteNisbett wrote about "Chinese culture" in which people regard harmony and family as more important than individual identity.
ReplyDeleteAs some people said above, I think this culture was there,and it has changed.That is because I hear about many elder people who has children but are not cared by them, and often see the news about Kodokushi. In addition I agree one of the reasons why this change have happened is that they have become too busy to care their family. However I think globalization has also played some roles in this change. It may be true to think that the concept of individual has flown from Western countries through globalization, and this has caused the change of people's thought. If globalization didn't exist, even if people were busy, they would spend much left time caring their family, and the situation would differ.
3) I do not really believe in "feng shui". It is true that, as Saori already pointed out, some people believe in "feng shui" and consider it when they decide the interior of their house hoping that it will make their life better. But I do not think "feng shui" can make our life better. I have watched a TV program which introduced the restaurant which was once going bankrupt but became successful again because of "feng shui". But did that restaurant really become successful again because it followed what feng shui master said? I do not think so. There is no evidence for it. Though I do not believe in feng shui, I like the way Chinese people see the world, consisting of continuously interacting substances, which is the idea that forms feng shui.
ReplyDeleteThis has little to do with the question itself, but I was surprised to know that they do not have any system like feng shui in the West. This makes me realize the difference between Western people and Eastern people's ways of seeing the world.
Answering to question 2, I believe both Chinese life of harmony and Greek life of individual consist of good sides. However, by thinking just the life of improvement of individuals, which is the core material for students, the Greek way of life could be far better than the Chinese way of life.
ReplyDeleteThis is because the Greek’s life can have more possibility of producing creative ideas, freely fulfills individual’s desire, and does not have to consider others too much when expressing one’s opinion. On the other hand, being “harmonized” in Chinese society can lead to less productivity in creative ideas, since everyone has to regard not to harm others and to protect one’s self, when presenting ideas. I suppose creative ideas are one of the sources to encourage develop one’s knowledge and belief.
As a reason for this, when choosing either of Chinese or Greek ways of life from the perspective of one’s progress, I would rather choose to live in the Greek’s society.
< Reply to Emi Fujiwara
ReplyDeleteI defintely agree with you!
In pursit of happiness, it should always begin with oneself, namely "individual". Hence, each single person must be treated with respect and dignity, and eventually guaranteed
their own individual right as the acient Greeks strived for it. This human right is fundamental and unchangeable.
I am not fond of the eastern i.e. Chinese way either that some individuals are even stigmatized by the society just because they are different and unique.
In fact, the eastern society glorifies both harmony and unity as precious assets even though the reality speaks a totally different language.
The estern society, so-called "Gemeinschaft" is merely trying to destroy personal freedom and mold what people should be rather than what they want to be.
In addition, if there is limitation,there is no growth.It is obvious that there are much less talented individuals called "genius" in the Orient than in the Occident because a majority of prodigies has already been ripped their talents off in their childhood. As a result,the most of Asians, especially Chinese and Japanese became to imitate almost everything such as automobiles and cheep fakes, however,those are never be authentic.
I can assure that there will never be either the second Bill Gates or Einstein Jr. in none of two countries due to lack of creativity.
For that reason, I do advocate the way of the acient Greeks as well and hope that the childish "Gemeinschaft" in our society turnes
into the mature " Gesellschaft" someday.
I have noticed that a lot of people have chosen the Greek way of living for question #2. Although I have already posted one comment about this question, since only Uka has posted a comment in favor of the Chinese way of living, I will try to comment on some points that may support people who choose the Chinese way. You may notice some discrepancies in my writing.
ReplyDeleteThe Chinese way of living has many attributes that are not seen in Greek culture. At its most fundamental level, the desire for harmony arises from a feeling of empathy and compassion. It is an attempt to respect the other person`s views. To live in harmony with the other person, the one who changes is you, not the other way around. Understanding that there different people may have different views is something that you need to know for harmony. You do not try to suppress the other person`s views and ideas, or to forcibly change the other person`s views, but instead accepts that the other`s thoughts have the same level of importance as their own ones. Your own thoughts and ideas are there, but at the same time, the other person`s thoughts exist, too.
The concept of harmony can make it easier for people to work together. We live in a very fortunate country. We have most things that we need to live. However, we must not forget that this is not always the case for everyone, or that this was not the case in the past. If you do not have the basics things that you need to live, your first priority would naturally be to secure those things necessary for survival. To do this, you need to work together with others. Although it`s not impossible, it will be very difficult to survive completely on your own. The concept of harmony could become a necessity to survive. For this, you also need a clear sense of purpose and unity. Without a common goal, people may be unable to exercise their individual abililties fully. If you can`t focus on a purpose with all of the means that you possess, it makes it harder for the job to be done. This is also possible in a Greek society, but there is a larger possibility of people arguing with each other, each thinking that their view is right. Coming to a conclusion can take time, and in some cases, they might not be able to come to a satisfying conclusion at all. When you consider that your life may be on the line, time and smooth teamwork cannot be wasted. When people live together, we need some kind of a system, or a society, for the sake of every member of that group. Harmony is a useful method of thinking which will benefit the whole.
The concept of harmony can also give you different perspectives. Understanding harmony makes it easier for you to realize that your actions have an effect on the people around you. This may be a starting point for a nurturing a sense of good and evil, which will be useful throughout your life. Pursuing individual happiness is an important thing, but one person`s happiness should not come at the price of other people`s unhappiness.
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ReplyDeleteI do not believe in "feng shui", but i think I can understand what it is like to believe "feng shui".
In Japan, many people believe that 4 and 9 is a evil number, so it is a taboo to give gifts which contain 4 or 9 things. People know that there is no evidence for it, but it has been practiced by many people for a long time.I think it is very similar to "feng shui".I thought that China and japan was quite different, so I did not like it when japan and China was categorized as the same "east", but thinking about the fact that there are no such thing like "feng shui" in the western countries, the two countries might have many things in common.
>Saori Matsuoka
ReplyDeleteIn an aspect of fortunetelling, feng shui is very popular especially among Japanese women. I see that so many of female magazines frequently feature feng shui. I don't know how China practicing feng shui, but I heard that buisiness people in Hong Kong apply feng shui to built buildings for good business luck. I think that arranging the interior itself doesn't make life better. But feng shui considers people as a part of interrelated environment. People's best effort for better life is also needed. Arranging the interior such as making a room well-ventilated is practiced to increase vital energies of human-being. So, it might indirectly make life better.
>Ayaka Yahagi
ReplyDeleteChinese way of thinkng is very interesting. And, it reminds me that I am surprisingly influenced by Western way of thinking. But something stops me to be totally infected with it. Recently, feng shui is so popular not only in the East but in the West especially in Europe. Isn't it intersting? I am sure there is still some differences between the East and the West. But the differences are getting thinner by mutual influence caused by globalization.
to Madoka
ReplyDeleteI can definetely say that people has become busier than before. Now many families have both of their parents go to jobs. Because the Western way of thinking became popular, many people started to respect the individual rather than groups. However, I think many of the Japanese has now lost the traditional way of valuing family, even deep down inside. Many children now spend their time in their individual rooms where parents are unaware of what they are doing inside. Many families do not eat dinner together. Many people do not even go on family trips. The Westerners are not so. Children have their individual rooms, but they use them as bedrooms and usually spends their time in the living room. They get together to eat dinner, taking food from one big plate. They go on a family trip at least once a year. Furthurmore, Westerners are just as busy as Asians are. I think the Westerners now value family more than the Japanese, not concerning how busy their are.
Sorry if my english doesn't make sense
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ReplyDeleteto Miyuki,
ReplyDeleteIt is really interesting to hear about the Chinese. I have never been to China before, so I do not know what they are like. I am surprised that there are contracts that make children promise to show their devotion to the parents. However, if Chinese values families, would there be contracts needed that makes children show their devotion to their parents? I do not think being busy is one of the factors why people are not valuing family as much any more. Firstly, Westerners are just as busy as the Asians. Secondly, many people are busy with their jobs, but also with their activities outside of their jobs. If there is extra time to do your hobbies, people would be able to spend their time with their parents and children. However, they choose not to, and instead they go to golf, to eat out with friends, etc. I agree with many Asians' ideology deep down inside their heart has not changed, but it is starting to change.
to Yoko,
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that the Asians are beginning to learn to go against their authority. They have learned to make a group out of people with the same ideas, and they try to stand up for what they believe in. They are beginning to be independent of the leaders, in a good way. I think people should first stand against the authority if they are not fair, and make a negotiation afterwards to solve the problem.
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ReplyDelete<Reply to Uka Ohara
ReplyDeleteI absolutely agree with you.
< I think that from harmony, comes individuality.
It just sounds beautiful.
Your point of view reflects in your own philosophy, which I simply like.
2
ReplyDeleteI think both ways of lives are important when living in a society with you and many others.
Like we did in NP, I believe it's really important not to be sheep and have your own thoughts and opinions. On the other hand, you've got to be able to be harmonious like in China. Without this ability, it will be easier to produce conflict in daily life, and it is also likely that you will be treated as an outsider.
As long as both are not extreme, I think both ways are needed.